Thursday, July 7, 2016

MKIII Circle changes for me

Alright I spent a fair amount of time diving through the new stat cards for my Circle Orboros druids. I was intrigued by changes to some units and confused by changes to others. I glanced over everything and then dove into the changes to the models I currently use.

These are the changes to what I use or is in production. I didn’t bother with models still in packages waiting to be assembled. Thankfully that number has dwindled greatly. Yes we play much smaller games than most people, so my list will be fairly short.

My initial wish list hope will be in green.

KAYA THE WILDBORN-  My only warlock. She gained +1 strength, +1 ARM and that was it. Her spell list is identical. Her feat changed to allow any amount of fury to be placed on beasties instead of up to three. She is basically the exact same as before. That is good and a bit sad too. Of course I wanted something to make her more badass. Isn’t that what we all want for our favorite models? Yes it is. Still she will play exactly like she did last edition. No viable complaint here.

Wish list- was really hoping for +1 fury, new spell,  make her on par with the other Hordes "beast casters", please don’t take away living warbeast bonus to hit

ARGUS- -1 speed, -1 DEF, -1 ARM, -1 CMD range. The animus is now Doppler Bark which gives a defense de-buff to models within 2”. Circular vison now just ignores the back strike bonus to hit. The hit to speed, ARM and DEF sucks! Like damn it really sucks! If they were universally unused why make them easier to hit and wound? The animus change was needed. The loss of the ranged attack is fine. I have three of these guys and am one of the only people to give them so much love. They still have their combo attack and that makes for a descent bit of damage.

Wish list- new animus

FERAL WARPWOLF-  +1 spirit, +1 mind, -4 CMD range. Gained the Primal animus. So this guy got a couple boxes of extra health and a new animus. I’m totally fine with this. This guy stays the same with a tiny bit more longevity and an animus I’m not super excited to ever use. Especially on a three attack heavy.

Wish list- new animus

PUREBLOOD WARPWOLF- -2 spirit, +4 body, -1 CMD range. Lost the leadership ability Ghostly for all warpwolves. Gained assault. Well more health boxes is swell. Assault is descent as well. Sadly the RAT on this guy is terrible so the breath weapon will rarely ever hit without help. Doesn’t really bring much to the table that a Feral Warpwolf can’t do more or better.

Wish list- +1 point stronger attack or better MAT/RAT

GHETORIX- +1 body, +1 spirit, -3 CMD range. New animus in Spiny Growth. No idea why that changed from his previous Ornery. Powerful charge gone. Unyielding gone. Hyperaggressive gone. Gained the Murderous ability which is swell for cutting through infantry. Ghetorix took a bit of a hit with his combat potential and that sucks! He was a “go to” type inclusion so maybe that was why the toning down? Pretty disappointed in the changes made to this model.

Wish list- leave him alone

GNARLHORN SATYR- -1 SPD,  -1 Fury, -1 CMD range. Bounding animus gone. Now has Earth’s Blessing to ignore enemy movement shenanigans against him. Well they did nothing to make this guy more appealing to the masses. I loved his bounding animus for more threat range and to hit for charges and slams. What did they do to make people want to use this guy now? Another disappointment!

Wish list- a point stronger or a couple more health boxes

SHADOWHORN SATYR- -1 Fury, +1 spirit, +1 mind, -1 CMD range. Gained a new animus, Puissance. This gives him beat-back on melee attacks. The reversal ability is gone. Gained chain attack: throw. Well the added health boxes are alright. The loss of Fury sucks. The fact this guy is still a heavy warbeast but hit as hard as a light is still crap. Chain attack: throw is fun, but with a mediocre MAT and below descent strength (for a heavy) is it really that fun? What makes people want to use him now when they didn’t before?

Wish list- increased strength, DEF, or add +1 to POW

SCARSFELL GRIFFON- -1 SPD, -1 DEF, +1 ARM, -3 CMD range.  Gained stealth. Gained dodge animus that lets him move 2” is attack misses him. Still has the three base attacks, flight and double control range. Still a non-melee beat stick solo hunter/caster hunter. Lower DEF and increase ARM is a wash. Especially when his animus is DEF based. Why do that? Still a situation warbeast.

Wish list- anything to make him better option

WOLD WATCHER-  Shield Guard ability gone. Other than that this guy is the same. What sucks is that shield guard is gone. That was the whole point of me taking this guy. It still can be useful as a wound transfer target. I guess Bradigus ruined this guy for everyone else. That or shield guard is getting added somewhere else in this army?

Wish list- leave it alone

WOLD WYRD-  -1 Fury. Other than that this floating stone eye is the same. Actually maybe better? The changes to rate of fire now mean this guy can shoot three times without spending fury/forcing. That and his ability to get extra dice against upkeep spell targets give it some usefulness. I think it is still a situational warbeast, but the rate o’ fire changes help this little guy.

Wish list- anything to make it better and not worse

WAR WOLF- -3 CMD range. Tracker now allows for ignoring forest and no longer conceal/cover when charging. Sic’em ability now tied to ranged and melee attacks from druid infantry (or Wolf Sworn as they are called) units. Still a tiny fire and forget missile. Great with the gang ability and really still drek but itself.

Wish list- anything to make it better and not worse

WARPBORN SKINWALKERS-  -2 CMD range. All abilities gone (pathfinder, abomination, combined melee etc.).Power of their pole axes -1,. Relentless charge now gives the unit Pathfinder on the charge and nothing else. Gained Hyper-regeneration and that gives them D3 health back at the start of their turn. This is a fun ability, unless they are dead already. Not sure why these guys went for an offensive unit to a more defensive unit. Well if you can call it defensive. They are no harder to hit or wound. No idea why the changes were made to these guys. Another disappointing change. Not sure if I’ll finish them now as their role has changed so drastically.

Wish list- stronger or tougher to kill

BLACKCLAD WAYFARER- -1 DEF. gained battle wizard so he can cast spells after killing stuff. Lost immunity to all the elemental attacks. Gained prowl to get a DEF bonus while in terrain. Kept the same spell list. Not sure if these are good or bad changes. I guess this guy is essentially the same. The loss of immunity to the elemental stuff is situational for most, but was great to have for me. Since I always face lame-o Pyre Trolls and Fire Eaters.

Wish list- not really anything, just don’t make him lame

SHIFTING STONES-  Gained healing at 2” now. Circular vision change o rule means nothing really.  Change to no double teleport from one unit to next unit of stones. Once again thanks to Bradigus and others for abusing that. Virtually the exact same unit as before.

Wish list- don’t punish me for using them when other players ruined the teleporting shenanigans

STONE KEEPER- -1 ARM.  Can now take one of these guys per unit of Shifting Stones. Gained prowl and not stealth. Stone form now Stone shield gives him +4 ARM and no DEF penalty.  Well nothing major here. Well the loss of stealth for the unit sucks, but that looks to be disappearing faction-wide.

Wish list- nothing, really didn’t even expect him to come back

DRUID WILDER- -1 CMD range.  She gained the ability to upkeep a friendly warlock spell for free. Awesome! She can still remove/add fury, but only 1 to any beast within 3”. No more casting friendly animus. Not a huge loss since so many are self only cast. Can heal D3 boxes to a warbeast. The wilder is still a solid attachment and will see continued use. For me she got even more useful with the ability to upkeep a spell.

Wish list- keep her the same

SENTRY STONE- Devour magic ability gone. Gains prowl now, like everything else it seems in faction. Phase movement is automatic and no longer takes fury. Can create a forest (3” area effect) on itself for the cost of 1 fury. If  ever has less than 3 fury add D3 that turn. A bit better than before since it can move easier. It also can give itself a defense buff or create moveable terrain with the forest it creates. Devour magic was a fun ability, but hard to pull off and useless vs. warmachine.

The stone’s MANNIKINS- Have lost an attack. Cannot blow-up into forests anymore. Can be created for free, no more fury cost to do this. If ever less than 3 mannikins in play add 1 to the unit. Still have spray attack. Well they no longer create a wall of trees when they sacrifice themselves. The have less offensive potential. They can still use the fury from the Sentry Stone to boost. They are not really a threat to most stuff. However, they are an annoyance and being cheap they are not looked at as a threat. I am not sure if they are truly better. The respawn they have is fun. The loss of the attack is crummy.

Wish list- add +1 power to mannikins or option for more than three mannikins

THARN BLOOD WEAVERS- -1 CMD range. Blood Spiller ability gone. BOO! Dispel ability gone. BOO! Gain grievous wound to remove tough and healing. Gained Life Stealer to heal friendlies within CMD range, D3 points if they kill something. Blood Spiller was a great ability, especially in Hordes games. Having the ability to negate tough is alright, but most tough models will shrug off the puny damage potential these ladies have. Dispel was great for upkeep removal, but supposedly that is all Menoth does now and nobody is allowed to do that as well. I think the changes to these ladies are more on the negative side. Previously, they could get a good first strike against hard targets and then apply their gang ability to further the damage. Now…well not so much. I guess if they can mulch some infantry they can heal wounded stuff behind them. That is their thing now? Right? Yeah feeling a negative change with these ladies.

Wish list- +1 weapon power or a fun new unit attachment.

That does it for the pure Circle stuff I have done or almost done. I have some Minion allies that play with the druids, but I’ll cover them later. I still need to look at stuff I don’t use and see if it looks more enticing now. I’m not overly excited with the changes. The loss of stealth on units and the change to prowl means I need to load the table up with a lot of forests. I am still confused by the changes to some units and the lack of changes to others. For all the bluster about making every unit viable, it is still difficult to see it. Especially, with the two Satyr warbeasts I have.

Is it like this for all the factions? Was the promise of, all models are viable all the time, just noise? So far it looks like that might be the case. I’ll be curious to see if everyone is still preaching Warpwolf Stalker and Gorax as the go to warbeasts.

The overall reduction of CMD range across the faction is confusing. Then again when did I really ever use that stat? Never is a good answer. Is it like this for all the factions?

Will infantry over many beasts still be the modus operandi for the factions? Since I haven’t seen a reason not to use troopers, besides not wanting to paint multiple units again (thank too many years of 40K for that), maybe? They have to be killed to a man now, unless I’m still missing something. Will other players now play more than just two or three beasts of the most popular flavor? Will anyone care and just keep using the usual stuff plus or minus a unit here and there? Probably until someone/something changes the game scene and the interweb adapts accordingly.

I still need to dive into the Cryx and Minion stuff to see how the units I use have changed.


  1. I think you may be a little too harsh on the skinwalkers. They lost stuff, sure, but they did gain Unyielding which makes them ARM 18 and they're one of the few units in the game that kept their 8 health boxes. Throw the Alpha in there and they gain Gang making them able to hold a zone and clear off jamming units from them. Just my thoughts of course. It took me using an Earthborn, Axer and a unit of Runeshapers to clear them out. Pretty tough unit.

  2. They were pretty expensive for a three man one attack unit and combined melee. Yet they were a fun shock troop unit.

    Now that one attack is weaker and they are still expensive. The loss of combined melee is a minus.They can regen now and that is fun.

    Yes 8 health is cool, but everyone has 1+ units with 8 boxes still. A big deal, but is it really? Well depending on their target yes and no.

    They are a "defensive" unit, but pale in comparison to other defensive units. the Alpha makes them want to be used offensive with gang. It is a bit of a quandary for me.

    They are still pricey and it will boil down to another useful beast, which I can buff, or a min unit of werewolf men and possibly an attachment.

    The lack the attacks and numbers to clear a descent sized unit. Look like a mop-up unit or tie up a beast/jack or sit with stones on an objective. If they are sitting then let them and dedicate to attacking something else. De-buff them. There are multiple ways to deal with them, just like everything else in the game. Just don't play their game. That is what they want. That is the Circle way.

    You not knock them down with the runeshapers? That is their thing. Knockdown and then Earthtroll just steps on them. You roll bad with the Earthtroll then?

  3. I can see that. It's a tough decision between them and another beast. PP is trying to get people to run more beasts anyway.
    Earthborn took out a couple in one turn, then I lost him to one of his other beasts (can't remember what it was)then the axer moved in, took out a few, the runeshapers came in two turns after the EB started everything (they were on the flank taking out his infantry first) so the knock down didn't help me any. Still learning how to use them.

    1. yeah lead with the runebearers, knockdown and then mop up. then they won't have the DEF bonus while lying on the ground. just watch your spacing.
      knockdown is the new hotness as it seems to be more common in all factions now.

      biggest problem was that they were self-sufficient for me before with combine melee. Kaya didn't need to help them fight. now....well they could use someone who can buff them in combat and she cannot do that.